'He's a winger talking about loose forwards': Former All Black No 8 rejects benching Savea

Yeah I reckon Savea could show himself to be like McCaw in that respect, remodel himself to play how the team/game needed or changed. He started playing different when he moved into 8 I reckon, and I think he’s got a lot of those skills to shift back to 7 too. But you pretty much describe him as he is now, playing 8. Who’s going to be that dirty guy cleaning rucks and making tackles if Ardie is at 7? Sititi at 8? No, he’s basically doing what you describe of Ardie. Barrett? I think he’d be an excellent muscle man to replace and more importantly, improve on what Cane provided.\

Yeah I’m still wanting to give DP a shot, Super form is not everything, and maybe after a taste of playing against England, possible New Zealands toughest opponents last year, maybe his trying to hone a test game.

I think that viewing a player, in isolation, isn’t a great way of doing it.

It’s not, but it’s terribly complicated for us part timers to discuss are few factors online when all the bigger picture can be taken into context (and which your reader my not be on the same track with). I really like to try and get somewhere succinctly when having a quick back and forth online, which is why I ask a specific question when really no one in that actual position is going to think about it like that, you’re right.

I asked it because I suspected you answer was just along those same lines indicating his strengths now as an 8. So were sorta coming around to your argument of wanting to put the bigger picture on it when I question how you’re going to fit “Cane” into the team.

I think the missing piece with the All Blacks is that they are not busting the line and breaking up the opposition’s highly organized defenses

I really agree with that, but would go even further in saying its improvement from much more than the “trio” that’s needed to be able to bust games open again like that. A lot of it was much better last year, with the props and second row getting involved in some nice breaks, but certainly there was still far too much one out rugby and they were always the worst at getting over the gainline. I’d actually say they need more of a team contributor than Ardiea Savea’s individual brilliance to improve in that area. Ardie is the toughest and most succesful at getting them on the front foot when they are really playing that one out simple hit up or pick and go structure, but I think they need, as I actually referred in the 7, someone running on the shoulder of another, willing to give the player that option and keep the defence guessing. Obviously players carrying need to be comfortable flicking the ball on last second etc, but I actually see Ardie as being someone with the least skills in either of those areas in the current squad. He is perhaps the two pass wide midfield carry man in place of Jordie and Rieko, enough ferocity to break tough midfield tackles and get an offload away if he wins that contact. Now that I think of it, having Ardie in the team may be a key factory in why the team is so poor in showing trickery and deception before the tackle happens, like where other teams prefer to work space. I’ve never really thought the ABs simply have the worst runners?

Sotutu is a key man in that area of the game for me, he is the one player in NZ that is so adept at passing to the right runner. Kirifi would be perfect for being that guy as far as a loosie option for me, as far as this article goes. Sititi as the alround runner and distribute from the bench, and Ardie being able to play in whatever role is missing, or needed more, are how I can see some of the other ‘trio’ facets working too.

France using the 7-1, England using the 6-2, Ireland and Scotland have used it a few times as well and many nations are starting to adopt it. The reality is the game is changing. Administrators have made it faster and that is leading to more significant drop offs in the forwards. You have 2 options. Load your bench with forwards or alter your player conditioning which might mean more intense conditioning for forwards and a drop off in bulk. The game can still be played many ways. Every nation needs to adapt in their own way to suit their strengths. France have followed the Springbok model of tight forwards being preferred because it suits them. They have huge hunks of meat and the bench is as good as the starters so why not go for it? The Springboks have also used hybrids like Kwagga Smith, Schalk Britz, Deon Fourie, Franco Mostert and others. England are following that model instead and by putting 3 loosies there who can do damage in defence and make the breakdown a mess in the final quarter. It worked well against Wales but will be interested to see how it goes going forward against better opposition who can threaten their lineout and scrum. All the talk around bench limitations to stop the 7-1 and 6-2 for me is nonsense. Coaches who refuse to innovate want to keep the game the same and make it uniform and sameness is bad for fans. The bench composition adds jeopardy and is a huge debate point for fans who love it. Bench innovations have not made the game worse, they have made it better and more watchable. They challenge coaches and teams and that’s what fans want. What we need now is more coaches to innovate. There is still space for the 5-3 or even a 4-4 if a coach is willing to take it on and play expansive high tempo possession-based rugby with forwards who are lean and mean and backs who are good over the ball. The laws favour that style more than ever before. Ireland are too old to do it now. Every team needs to innovate to best suit their style and players so I hope coaches and pundits stop moaning about forwards and benches and start to find different ways to win.