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'Kwagga Smith had hands on the ground': Foster believes final should have ended with penalty to All Blacks

Beauden Barrett of New Zealand is challenged by Kwagga Smith of South Africa during the Rugby World Cup Final match between New Zealand and South Africa at Stade de France on October 28, 2023 in Paris, France. (Photo by Cameron Spencer/Getty Images)

Departing All Blacks head coach Ian Foster has offered his take on the end of the Rugby World Cup final which saw the Springboks win 12-11 over New Zealand to claim back-to-back crowns.

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The All Blacks coaches sought clarity on a number of calls after their review. After receiving private acknowledgement of some errors and an apology from World Rugby, Foster has spent “many nights” waking up thinking about how his side could have scored at least one more point.

His view is that the World Cup final should have ended on a penalty to the All Blacks near halfway for an infringement by flanker Kwagga Smith at a ruck.

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That would have given Jordie Barrett one last chance to nail a long range kick to take the lead after he had missed one earlier in the dying stages.

“You can look at some of the controllables, there was a great Jordie Barrett chip in the first half and Ardie ran onto it, the ball didn’t bounce his way,” Foster said on The Platform podcast.

“We had a couple of goal kicks in that last 20 that didn’t go over.

“I think the World Cup should have finished on a penalty to us, near where Jordie missed his first kick.

“Kwagga Smith clearly had hands on the ground when he won a ball at the breakdown that we didn’t get a penalty for.

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“The drama of having a 48 metre penalty to finish a World Cup, that wouldn’t have done anyone’s nerves any good anyway.

“But look, there’s a whole lot of ‘what ifs’, but that’s what it is.”

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The All Blacks head coach was still immensely proud of his side after captain Sam Cane was red carded early in the first half.

Down to 14 players for the remainder of the clash, the All Blacks outscored South Africa 8-3 during that time.

Foster credited the adjustments made at half-time with the focus and clarity of the players led to a big second half push.

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The final score was just “finals footy” and he looked back to the 2011 Rugby World Cup where the All Blacks ended up on the other side.

“We’ve always said World Cups are unique and you look back at 2011 for example, we won a really tight game against France 8-7,” he recalled.

“People forget about how tight that game was, they just remember the victory.

“There were cries from the French for a penalty in the last part of that game.

“Am I philosophical? I guess I am about it but what I’ve learnt, I’ll never get over it I don’t think, but there is no point us carrying around a lot of anger about it either because it doesn’t change.

“We’ve just got to acknowledge that’s what finals are about, there is a bit of drama on all counts.”

 

 

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Comments

76 Comments
P
Pecos 608 days ago

In a final. discipline is the ONLY CONTROLLABLE that matters. Cherrypicking this, that, & the other, is a zero sum game. Both teams will balance the books on “what ifs”. Who do I blame for this loss? Sam Cane. No doubt.

C
Chesterfield 609 days ago

The game was lost in the tackle count and failure to set for a drop kick, not the jackle penalty count. The Bokke pack defended their hearts out and Mounga didn’t convert when it counted.

End of.

J
JW 608 days ago

As you point out, there were many points in that game, so many that either side could have won by twenty with the way the bounces and calls went.

J
JD 609 days ago

Pathetic. Almost as if Ben Smith believes that if he keeps repeating this (and all the other instances where the ABs were supposedly “short changed”), someone is going to reverse the result and give the World Cup to NZ.


Grow up and move on.

J
JD 609 days ago

Yup, and there was a clear and very obvious knock-on from which Beaudie scored. Nothing in the entire game was more obvious or less controversial. It was almost as if Barnes wanted to compensate for an error he might have made earlier.

No way was that a try.

J
JW 608 days ago

You wont get Foster trying to believe that, so I wouldnt even bother trying.


The first try was probably more though, and as they passed up three points a few times in that sequence they ultimately got 5 points out of it. So it all came out in the wash, just took nearly 10 minutes for it all to play out I think.

m
melt 610 days ago

Good grief move on Ben. Its nearly time for the next RWC. Richie was great. So great that he got away with illegality and bordering on illigality season after season. You might need to consider therapy to help you get past this because clearly you are struggling.

E
Evka 610 days ago

Wow. can’t believe the guy doesn’t want to let this go, despite a blatant forward pass try. If’s, buts and maybe’s. What is Richie McCall played in the age of the TMO bunker, would New Zealand even have won 3 world cups?

D
DK 610 days ago

It's over. Make peace with it and move on.

R
RL 610 days ago

Benjie Smith (the crime solving dog) at least gives me something to read on the ipad while dropping the kids off at the pool. Like back issues of NZ stuff magazine very good for reading on the bogs.

s
strachan 610 days ago

Willem SAFFA WELS Beker 🤣

W
Wayne 610 days ago

Refs getting it wrong is part of the game. And the All Blacks kicked two opportunities straight up sh*t creek. So crying foul is doubly disingenuous.

S
Suren 610 days ago

100% agree

J
Justin 610 days ago

what a pleasure it is reading this with 4 rwc titles, 2 in a row and the webb ellis renamed “Willem” and the worst part…. all the teams know Boks could win it again in 27

G
GH 610 days ago

Hey Ben Smith. What's in your head?

S
Suren 610 days ago

It’s really reached a point of absolute annoyance and irritation at the the way the New Zealanders and their journalists are still suffering from sour-grapes syndrome. It’s done now - the trophy is ‘by onse Kantry’. Let life go on. If one had to dissect the unfair decisions that went against the Boks, then we'd have defeated the Irish, thumped England by a much bigger margin and been World Champs in 2015, when we were robbed against the Aussies. Never thought the kiwis were such cry-babies - which includes some of the silly naysayers from England, as well. Get over it, guys. Accept it. SA ARE the World Champs, and deservedly so, too!

J
JJGhost 610 days ago

There must be a national shortage of tissues in Kiwi land by now. Stop crying and move on guys, go tend those sheep etc.

K
K 611 days ago

Kiwis: The obvious knock on that led to the try was more than 2 phases ago!!! How dare the TMO jump in?!?! It should have been ignored and try should have stood!!!


Also Kiwis: Kwagga had hands on the ground around halfway at the XX (read as: we’re throwing sht at the wall and hoping it sticks) minute. We can’t find any footage or pics but trust us it happened. OMG terrible ref how did we lose. Bias to SA

S
Suren 610 days ago

Hi. I’d like to challenge you to cite EVERY error in EVERY match. SA were on the receiving end of many unfair decisions. However, we are a resilient nation that does not flog a beaten horse. What’sdone is done. It’s not going to change the Bokke being World Champs. The Kiwis had 80+ minutes to win the game. They could not. The kiwis had a few opportunities to kick at goal. They chose not to. When the kiwis HAD the crucial opportunities to kick at goal, they missed. Whose fault? The refs? The Boks? I rest my case.

J
JW 610 days ago

Did you think it was obvious?


What do you think actually happened, describe it.

S
Slobodan 611 days ago

Keep the complaints up, and rugby will turn into whinny football ⚽

B
Bob Marler 611 days ago

So Foster reckons the All Blacks could have won it by getting a penalty and a long-range kick over while at the same time acknowledging how the ABs “had a couple of goal kicks in that last 20 that didn’t go over”. Just silly.

s
strachan 611 days ago

Boks are world champions. Nothing will ever change that. The greatest rugby country in the sport ever. No arguments further please. Maybe the Ref is a Saffa @#$%&

m
mW 610 days ago

Dreamer. It was finals footy one game saffas current world champs. Greatest rugby country b.s. cu guys nx season.

C
CO 611 days ago

The greatest shame is the team that played attacking rugby and scored all the tries whilst dominating with 14 ended up second due to a maverick TMO. Not a good look for rugby.

B
Bob Marler 611 days ago

Tries?

N
Nickers 611 days ago

Just when you think we’ve heard the end of it.


As an ABs supporter I can 100% say the ABs had their chance to win, and didn’t take it. SA can probably find the exact same number of close calls (KLA’s nearly try for example) and calls that could have gone their way but didn’t.


The ABs lost (among other reasons) because they have not had a reliable goal kicker since DC retired. Mo’unga/JB/BB/Dmac must have had close to the lowest career success rates at the tournament. Even Portugal, Italy, Chile, have goal kickers who kick at 80%+ Not to mention France, Argentina, England, Ireland, South Africa all have kickers who must be over 95% between the 15m lines.


Foster is talking about a 50/50 call, exactly the same as in the France vs SA game with Kwagga.


The rule IS NOT that you can’t have had your hands on the ground, it’s that you must support your own body weight. The rule makes reference to a players hand “grazing” the ground being OK - deliberately ambiguous when it could be made clear. Who is to say how much weight is on a players hands, what defines grazing the ground? the referee has to decide this in a split second which is nearly impossible.


A simple rule clarification from WR that says a players hand must not come into contact with the ground or another player etc… would clear this up completely.

A
Ace 611 days ago

“Yes, I am philosophical, but that’s not going to stop me from having a good old whine.”

F
Flankly 611 days ago

The most disappointing thing about the 2023 RWC is the poor sportsmanship.


Every time a team is beaten there is a predictable stream of commentary about why they deserved to win, how bad the referee was, about incidents in the game that should have had different results, etc. Under those circumstances you can’t have an enjoyable tournament, because all wins are illegitimate and all losses are unfair.


There have always been trolls, biased fans and commentators playing to their audience that peddle this kind of thing, but now it is endemic. Coaches, players, and ex-players have joined in the bun fight.


The news for Foster is that there will always be debatable calls and non-calls. We should keep finding ways to reduce the number of clear and obvious errors, but there is too much speed, complexity and interpretation to eradicate them.


In the end we really want referees to do their best, and everyone else to accept the results as officiated. Then let’s congratulate the winner, bury our complaints, and move on to the next challenge.


Rugby used to be known for good sportsmanship. Sadly that is a thing of the past.

J
JW 610 days ago

I think it might have been made especially bad this year by the introduction of Ireland as a real title threat, doubly so from their fans with the example their side has given them. The leadership group were actually really good at this cup I thought though, so hopefully the fans will learn a bit off them there too. The French aren’t always there, but they’re not new either and everyone already knows stuff gets lost in translation.


There’s been gloating from the new world leaders, and furious defence of that outcome, but I can’t say where it has got worse in general. Perhaps it was just the nature of this tournament, and the fact all but one finals game was decided in the last minute?

T
The 611 days ago

This has become beyond boring but I guess if the intention is clickbait then I guess it worked 😂😂

S
Sumkunn Tsadmiova 611 days ago

Such a shame that all NZ sporting grace is confined to their cricket team. What the ABs could learn from someone like Kane Williamson. Instead they’re boorish whingers with a totally misguided sense of entitlement. Not content with being given a century’s worth of biased preferment in the RWC 2011 final (that disgracefully cheated France out of their rightly deserved first RWC) they continue to bleat / complain / moan whenever the scoreboard goes against them.

J
JW 610 days ago

Foster is just the odd one out. You won’t see that from Razor!

m
mW 610 days ago

Blah blah blah dumb frog tell yor guys to leap wen it counts.

F
FC 611 days ago

Oh God, Bennie the gutless wondercunt is back…

A
Ace 611 days ago

He really is a cunning stunt.

S
Snash 611 days ago

One hand on the ball, 50/50 call, ref angle probs of hand on ball. ABs should not have left it (margin) in hands of the ref. Move on mate.

p
pieter 611 days ago

2023 world cup will be remembered with the All Blacks winning the champions trophy as the sorest losers in world rugby history

j
johnz 611 days ago

With SA fans being so graceful in victory.

j
johnz 611 days ago

You can only control the things you can control, so why don’t we talk about some of those Foz?


Why did the boys look so polished and composed against Ireland (after 15 months of preparation presumably for one game) but come out of the sheds looking flustered, with poor composure and decision making for the final?


Why did the team make so many mistakes and look tactically poor, letting SA out to a 9 point lead which was ultimately unassailable?


Why did there appear to be no strategy for drop kicks?


Why did they play so much better with 14 men, minus the captain, than with a fully prepared contingent of 15?


I don’t want to take anything away from the amazing effort of the 14 blokes who played their hearts out and changed the strategy to stay in the game, but ultimately it was a poor start that left the game at the mercy of those pesky uncontrollables.


After watching the first 30 minutes of the game my impression was that we were in store for a towelling. It took a crisis to get things back on track. Love to hear your thoughts on that one Foz.

J
JW 610 days ago

Look, I just worry about the things I can control, like the bounce of the ball, or what the opposition does, or the ref even! I swear I thought I had them in my bag, ah, in the bag I mean 😊


IdontknowwhatwentwrongFoster

N
Nickers 611 days ago

Oddly quite about that wasn’t he.

O
OJohn 611 days ago

And amazingly not one potential referee error went against the Boks. Amazing coincidence.

B
Bob Marler 611 days ago

Barrets try off the knock-on? There’s one.

J
Jon 611 days ago

So if the ABs lose - it’s any excuse under the sun? Poor form Foster


Maybe Jordie and you can practice those long-range kicks rather than whinging

H
HU 611 days ago

a bit like Donald Trump searching for “the lost votes” ….


let's face it: the ABs made the final, which is more than could have been expected at the beginning of the World Cup

A
Ace 611 days ago

Or like joe biden pretending to be compos mentis …

B
BH 611 days ago

Get over it, you lost

J
JW 611 days ago

Foster has lost sight of what the All Blacks have learned the hard way over the decades, you perform and play in a manner which takes fate, or luck, out of the equation.


Those circumstances are the opposite of ‘controllables’ as well. Pretty sure Kwaga just used the hand to regain his balance as well, which is allowed these days.

M
Mzilikazi 611 days ago

“I think the World Cup should have finished on a penalty to us, near where Jordie missed his first kick.”


Dear Mr Foster, I think the QF v Ireland should have ended with a penalty to Ireland, Sam Whitelock did not release in the tackle. I’m sure you will agree ?

J
JW 611 days ago

Certainly judging by Wayne Barnes standards he didn’t

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