The afternoon Rob Baxter call to Steve Borthwick about new PGB deal

Rob Baxter is hopeful that a Wednesday afternoon call with Steve Borthwick and then a Friday session with Exeter’s England players can help smooth any concerns over the imminent announcement of the new professional game agreement between the RFU and Premiership Rugby.

The existing eight-year deal, which was rubber-stamped in 2016, has elapsed and although there have been assurances from the RFU that a new partnership has been agreed upon, there has yet been no official confirmation from English Rugby HQ that everything is signed, sealed and definitely ready to go.

The proposed new eight-year deal is reputedly worth more than £260million to England’s top-flight clubs. It includes hybrid contract provisions covering up to 25 leading Test squad players and greater alignment in areas such as player strength and conditioning.

Baxter threw open the doors at Sandy Park on Wednesday, allowing media and fans to watch an open training session ahead of the upcoming 2024/25 Gallagher Premiership season which begins for the Chiefs at home to Leicester on September 21.

During his 40-minute media briefing, the long-serving director of rugby willingly embraced questions regarding the proposed new PGB deal.

As it stands, with the agreement yet to officially click into gear, he had no major hang-ups. However, he did highlight some potential scenarios that could prove troublesome between club and country if they materialise.

He added, though, that it won’t be until two to three years into the new agreement that its merit can be properly assessed. Here is how the PGB part of his new-season media session unfolded:

Media: Ahead of the new season the new PGB will be sorted out officially. How is it going to change English rugby moving forward?

Baxter: It’s a funny one, the new agreement. We are all in a bit of a catch-22, that is the reality. We want the game to be successful, we want the game to look from the outside like it’s aligned. Listen, if the England international team is successful that will aid the Premiership. If the Premiership is successful and thriving that will aid the RFU.

I think the RFU have taken a little bit of an advantage of the scenario that Premiership Rugby has found itself in, without doubt, but that is where we are. That is the scenario we are in. It’s our job now to get on with it as clubs, make the relationship work, which is obviously going to be slightly different, and make sure we have a thriving product in the Premiership and there is a thriving English product across the board because at the end of the day, we need the game to grow.

The Premiership and the RFU, we need the game to grow, we need a supporter base to grow, more TV companies interested. That is going to be a huge part of what we all need to achieve.

Media: What do you mean in terms of ‘taking advantage’?

Baxter: The RFU are asking for a lot more control of the players for what they are giving the clubs.

Media: What is your view?

Baxter: It’s going to be like anything; until we start doing it and we do the process then we will know.

Media: You need to know what that process is going to be pretty sharply?

Baxter: I think we are now in the end-stage of knowing pretty much how it is going to work. I’d like to think it’s been sold to us that most of what we feel as Premiership clubs, sticking points or areas of conflict, will be dealt with by individual development plans and good levels of communication between England and the clubs.

I hope that is the case. If that is the case it could be great for everybody. But the proof of that will be down the line. I actually said to Conor O’Shea (RFU executive director of performance rugby) the other day the proof of this will be two, three years when you look statistically and you go, ‘Well, this is working really well because it means England internationals are available for most of the Premiership clubs they play for, the big games, and they are also playing for England’ because that ticks a lot of boxes.

That means between us we are dealing with playing, medical, conditioning welfare really well and they stay available and play lots of games. That’s the big tick box for everybody. If the flip of it is it is not like that, we’ll see. That is why the proof of the pudding will be down that line.

Media: Is there any concern on your part that when this plan is implemented, England aren’t actually going to have anyone in the S&C department (as staff have left)?

Baxter: It is something that has kind of been brought up by my S&C staff. Obviously there is talk about that S&C backwards and forwards between the clubs, the medical backwards and forwards between the clubs. Listen, it’s not something that has not been going on. There have been good levels of communication between S&C staff and medical staff. Steve and I have a good relationship. It’s not like it’s not there.

The problem is now the actual rules and regs are different on who takes responsibility, who leads it up, who guides that programme, so that’s the difference. My S&C staff have kind of said that sounds great but who is going to be doing it? So those are questions that will be answered down the line.

Media: So someone like Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, his programme will be controlled by the RFU?

Baxter: It depends. They have more control over enhanced EPS (England player squad) players and what it basically comes down to, the crux to it is that S&C and medical decisions will be made by the England head coach. Selection for Premiership and European Cup games will be made by the club’s DoR.

It doesn’t take a great deal of working out to go, ‘Well, if you are in control of someone’s medical decisions, your deciding when they play really, aren’t you?’ That is where the level of communication and the setting out of these IDPs (individual development. plans), which is all going to be happening in the next three or four weeks, will all establish everything.

Media: So what do you envisage?

Baxter: Listen, I have got a phone call lined up with Steve this afternoon. We are going to have a good chat. I have got the players’ IDP’s that we are going to talk about. We’ll have a discussion around any area of debate. I’ll be honest with you, from what I have been sent through now, there is not going to be many huge areas of us disagreeing with what England are looking at and what we are looking at in the development of the players, and then we are going to meet with the players on Friday.

At the moment, the process looks like there is no reason for me to sit here and go, ‘There is going to be a problem’. I don’t want to put a dampener on it and say, ‘This is going to cause absolute mayhem’ because we won’t know until it comes down the line. I think what will happen is we won’t really find out how it is going to work until that decision gets made, a run-in where you have got Champions Cup games very close to internationals.

It will be that, ‘Oh actually, this guy needs an injection on his ankle, that means he will be off feet for three weeks but actually he is still fit to play’… If you look at it at club level, if you have got your two biggest games of the season coming up, you’ll go we will probably do that in the next two weeks and if that player has got two big games for his club going into an international period, that is what you are going to start seeing friction. I don’t want to pre-empt it.

Media: Is there a hypothetical scenario where Steve says ‘this player can’t play’ and you’re here with the player and you’re saying he is fit, we think he is fit?

Baxter: That’s a scenario and that is where the IDPs and the level of communication, that is what you have got to try and work together and hope things iron themselves out. We’ll discuss things today, I have a meeting with Steve.

I can be speaking to you all on Saturday in a different interview and say, ‘This is going to work fine, I don’t see there will be any issues’. But I think because we haven’t gone through it yet you don’t really know… I’m going to get murdered in the press now, ‘Rob Baxter says PGB will not work’ (laughs).