Toby Flood: 'Horrible and nasty' duo made difference for England

If Leicester had of done that by signing for 4 or 5 years, and with more notice, no doubt his loyalty would have paid off sooner.

Not that you would be able to evaluate his performance relative to those in NZ. This has been the reason NZR prefer their players to go overseas once they’ve matured, they know their ability.

If not, then yes I fully agree, this would have just been the follow up message to him, it would have been the come back offer as well, to which Leicester happily returned knowing he was now back behind players like Ennor and Lam.

PS: I think you’re confusing test match quality with vSA quality, think more middle of the pack like Ireland and England etc.

Top stuff Bull 👍

NZ has a few teams that play test level footy BTW, they don’t need to rep the All Blacks to qualify.

First though like I replied to Tk where does it say theres need to test vets, or proven reliable players? It is simply ‘test quality’.

Now, I have created a list that I think is test quality, so all weve got to do is upskill the missing pieces right? No. Razor might not mean to have given every player half a dozen matchs but he will want to have identified and assured himself that each individual is indeed test quality. So yes, plays like Darry and Lord may still be included in a few squads and used so he’s happy to include them as say 5th and 6th ranked locks, but that doesn’t mean he needs to go to the same level to ensure for himself the 7th and 8th ranked locks.

He might be happy basing performances off SR Finals, or organizing an AB XV match against a team like France or SA with similar locking depth (even organizing say Warner Dearns to be part of the Japan XV etc), and I’m sure they’re going to have a very large squad over in South Africa for two months.

I don’t think he is quite in the same predicament as SA to have to rest top stars. And this is obviously just goal setting, they’re supposed to be hard. As you can see by the context around this series, arbitrary targets like everyone getting some minutes are made. That could also simply be how he ensures he has met the 4. So hookers would be ticked, as he’s already used 5 at test level. If you looked at the Baabaas SA game you’d see Beehre performing like an accomplished test player, that already makes 7 locks with more than 2 full seasons to go. You take the point BA was making about Marshalls previous remarks about Razor want players to be able to play 3/4/5 different positions, that would mean if Razor was really happy with Finau at lock last week he already has 8 test quality locks as well, etc, etc.

TLDR sorry for the big reply, it’s just a goal, the teams not going to suddenly fail if he doesn’t reach it, I think theres many means and many players for him to be comfortable in getting 4 in each position. He’s obviously not going to be able to get 4 proven, hardened test players in each by then, no.

Basically just an ability of being able to see the wood for the trees, or probably for me, the other way around would be more accurate.

If it wasn’t clear, this isn’t what I said happened, its just what I would fear more than MO’s take. So to add to my second para, I conclude that thought by saying I think you’re right that it was a good learning experience, as my actual take from that game was that Razor tried to use his top squad against Italy so that they’d have a chance of putting 50, or even 100 on them, and in so doing, gain the squad a huge confidence boost which had been lacking. I think that is more likely than him just not realising that if it turned into a real battle that fresher guys would have been better.

I’m not sure if Parker was referenced as not being able to be included in this squad, but I’m pretty sure Razor said he wanted Blackadder as an injury replacement (ahead of CLW?) but, you guessed it, he was injured. I too would like to see more of Howden and few other of the 1.96-1.98m locks.